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I do recall him telling me... that, well, he was going to reach out to or was going to speak to Rudy Giuliani, and I think Ambassador Volker felt that there was this very good story to tell about President Volodymyr Zelensky and a new chapter in Ukraine. And that was Ambassador Volker goal, was to hopefully take away some of that, what we sense was a negative stream coming from Mr. Giuliani to the President.

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